MM Lee Kuan Yew named in 2010 TIME 100


Lee Kuan Yew is named as one of 100 people who “most affect our world”.  Henry Kissinger for TIME:

Historians have been debating, it seems forever, whether individuals shape events or are their register. There can be no doubt about the answer with regard to Lee Kuan Yew, 86, Minister Mentor of Singapore. For 50 years, he has shaped the fate of Singapore.

44 Responses to “MM Lee Kuan Yew named in 2010 TIME 100”

  1. I have always admired and respected Henry Kissinger until his Time article on Lee Kuan Yew. Kissinger’s praise of Yew is shameful. This man was a dictator in every sense of the word; something abhorent to the US. While it is true that Yew transformed his country, he did so ruthlessly while stripping citizens of their personal freedoms, censoring the media, squashing his opposition, and indoctrinating, or brainwashing the people subjected to his tyrannical rule. Yew’s savage use of the death penalty and barbaric flogging frenzy, for both violent and non-violent law offenders, is condemned by human rights organizations all across the globe and violates United Nations statutes on torture. Yew and his government was also able to accomplish much because for the most part the United States supported this tyrant and the United Nations did nothing to stop the atrocities. Yew certainly is not deserving of top 100 people in the world, by his own standards, and according to the strange laws of Singapore, he should have been caned and in jail for what he has dont to his subjects.

  2. 2 pristymo

    MM Lee absolutely deserves this title. 🙂

  3. 3 IsThatSo

    Is that so? Other than not being able to express political and racially dividing views in mainstream newspapers, we are able to read news from all over the world. Please don’t imagine that people here live like in isolated North Korea.

    You have seen people burning american flags and shouting death to america and norway etc simply for publishing some cartoons. And see the factions fighting for political power in Iraq. Press freedom does not equal responsible reporting. Endangering the lives of many american soldiers in iraq and afganistan by publishing more sensational pictures…

    America and Japan also has death penalty. Until your son or daughter is murdered then you probably cannot see that it does serve as a deterrence to such horrible crimes. He that shred blood does not deserve to be granted mercy. My life and the lives of people dear to me are certainly more precious than the few lives that were cut off for their horrific crimes.

    I used to be critical of the way he governed singapore. But looking at the economic, societal problems in various parts of the world, the corruption and how the people in power and the rich exploited the poor, I am thankful that in this tiny little island, we have the opportunity to strive for a brighter future. Sadly there are many places where even your sex can discriminate your freedom.

  4. 4 IsThatSo

    I apologise for the insensitive remarks made above in regard to the cartoons. I hope muslim singaporeans do not feel offended by this comparison if they happen to read this.

  5. 5 Nail

    Mr Lee is certainly an amazing man, whom his team and him have transformed Singapore from land with no natural resources to a land of opportunity. The citizens are taken care off. We have food, we have shelter and security is good. It is unfair to judge him if you are unable to produce solid and concrete evidence of his ‘evil’ doings. He may not be a fan of personal speech/ freedom, but he take care and worry about the basic needs of Singaporeans. He is a pragmatic man, find the root of the problems, seek solutions and solve them. He may not have all the best solutions to the problems he faced. But he tried his very best.

    He is a higher flyer. Given the education he received, he could have easily earn tons of money. Why did he bother to get out of comfort zone, join politics and become arch enemy with the Communists, risking the lives of his family and his? Would you?

    I challenge you to get out of your comfort zone, come and live here, have first hand experience before judging. If not, all talks and criticisms are useless.

  6. 6 hwee ming

    Thanks Nail! I agree completely. I always wonder those who wrote so negatively about LKY and Singapore, who are they? Where do they come from? What kind of family do they have? Are they Singaporeans? I can appreciate that some people might want more opposition voices. But for people who have travelled extensively and lived in a foreign country, we count our fortune for being born as a Singaporean. There is no perfect world.

    Before one judges, please learn the history of Singapore. We are an immigrant society and many of our grandparents have little or no education when they came from China, India and other parts of the world. It takes tremendous work to get a small country with almost close to nothing to where we are in ONE generation.

    I wonder those people who wrote all the nasty things, have their grandparents or parents never told them what Singapore was like and how hard life was after the 2nd world war? How poor some families were? It took 1 generation for our lives to become so much better. Of course, in a society, there are always people who are struggling more than others and the government is trying to help. The faster the economy develops, the harder it is for some to catch up in the rat race. This is inevitable. But we all try…. and we must try our best.

    Look at Europe and USA, even in Japan, does anyone think that people who live in these countries are living in a perfect world. I have lived in a so called very democratic country for more than 2 years now. It is a wonderful country in many ways and I love it. But, still I hear some people complaining about the problems they faced which are valid issues. But, i will always tell these people that life is already very kind to us and life can be worse. I wouldn’t complain and I am very proud being born a Singaporean. Very grateful to my grandparents for moving to Singapore to seek a better life. Very grateful to MM Lee and his team for their work done for Singapore.

    A person that does not know what gratitude is lives a sour and unhappy life. For people who are that unhappy, why are they still living in Singapore? Are they good enough for anywhere else? Perhaps, it is time for these people to consider doing something else. Apparently, life is not treating them that badly to drive them to want to change. If life is treating us good, there is no need to start picky on everything else and complain. Route to happiness is about learning to appreciate what we have, not to complain about what we do not have. Worse of all, complaining even without knowing what we are talking about!

    It is all about seeing the glass half empty or half full!

  7. 7 Count

    I think it all comes down to the individual. Do you believe that personal freedoms are completely non-negotiable? Or do you recognise that concessions must be made for the bigger picture? Both have their own valid points. Sanchez believes in the former, Mr Lee seems to believe in the latter. I personally believe that the ends do not justify the means, but then again, believing too much in the former seems abit naive.

  8. 8 LOL@Sandye

    At least we Singaporeans do not leave messages condemning your country.
    At least we Singaporeans have good public housing, not slums.
    We live in harmony, with no racial murders.
    We have good subsidised hospital care which everyone can afford with govt. medisave scheme.
    We have our national savings for us when we retire. We dont get taxed shitloads of money to feed the poor and the poverty (nor immigrants). No we do not have as much poverty as other countries.
    Expats often rate Singapore as one of the top places to work in.
    We have even roads (unlike most of the world and probably your country), and no racism nor unorthodox faith practices.

    You know what I am talking about.

    Please look at your own country before you criticize Singapore and its “subjects”.
    For you are a true subject of ignorance and naivity.

  9. 9 Jourdan

    Obviously detractors like Sandye Sanchez on May 22, 2010 have not been to Singapore. Obviously they live brainwashed by their own hallucinations of “freedom” and they totally lost focus on issues important to society, well being and lives of many others. They think they are right just because they can argue intellectually for their own whims and wanes.

    Grow up please, 6 billion people, try learning some history, geography, philosophy, common sense and economics before you make a public accusation of your meaningless 80 years of existence that don’t make a difference to us Singaporeans or the world at large.

    Look at the world’s problems and judge against your benchmark first before you criticize a man with a vision and fighting spirit to keep a idealism of humanity alive for his generation and the generations to come.

    Humble Singaporean

  10. Still waiting, patiently, for the death of a man that has much blood on his hands. Those supporting this viscious monster are as criminal as he is and the mob that controll this city state.

  11. 11 Jt16

    Evil will not prevail but justice will~ Who will be bothered by such brainless & nonsensical talk of thou who even the demise will not bring saddness to an ant~

  12. 12 The Faithful Phi

    Although every man will die one day. I hope MM Lee doesn’t, at least not so soon. I take for granted that he’ll always be there for us. As a young Singaporean, I’ve not been through the tough times in my father’s days but I see what Singapore has become in the past 20 years. Absolutely transformed. A higher standard of living, better education, more options/opportunities. It may not be absolutely fantastic time to live in but it’s definitely better than a lot of people in a lot of countries. If not for his tenacity and his pragmatic approach to the problems in our society, I’m not sure if we would be what we are today. A great country.

    Sometimes I don’t understand why some would keep telling you what’s the problem but doesn’t have a solution for the problem that he’s trying to raise.

    You accuse and you think it’s a problem but you give no solution to it. If you can’t change the way things are or had become, please don’t talk like you have lived in his time all the way up until now and was part of an effort to make things better for us Singaporeans and then was cast away in jail without a trial just because you opposed him and his government.

  13. People like Sandye Sanchez are just too narrow-minded and should just live in their own world. If you love the US so much, just stay put there. Do not ever step foot into Singapore. Thanks.

  14. 14 Nail

    If you are have the evidences, please openly shared it with us. Rather than playing the name calling games, by calling us criminals, it does not served or add merits to your claims. We are educated for a purpose, to be able to assess the evidences and make judgments. Please don’t insult our intelligence.

    Everyone will eventually die. Perhaps when the day comes, the dissents will feel happy of his passing, but I am sure there are a lot of people out there who appreciate his efforts and sacrifices would mourn for the loss. Challenge him when it is still possible, undermine his doings and show us the ‘monster’ as you have claimed. That will certainly be a more honourable act rather than wishing for his death – for death has no pain, it just spells the end of the story for the decease, and the living will do like MM Lee had suggested: ‘Do not judge a man. Close the coffin, then decide.’ And I am positive that he had left behind legacy which echoes through many generations to come.

  15. 15 SP

    Hello Sandye Sanchez, if you still leave in some “gumidypudi” village in India, you won’t talk about LKY like that. Lucky you escape to country with “racial murders”

  16. 16 BL

    Sandye Sanchez, if you are going to disparage a well-known public figure like Lee Kuan Yew, you would do well to give yourself some credence by making the effort to get his name right. His family name is Lee and his given name is Kuan Yew. Calling him Yew would be akin to referring to George W Bush as “Walker”.

    Speaking as a Singaporean who has spent the last 10 years living in the USA, I consider myself fortunate to have had the privilege of experiencing life in both countries first-hand. Current economic circumstances notwithstanding, the USA is certainly a great country founded on admirable ideals, but I have to say in all honesty that I would consider the quality of Singapore’s governance far superior to that of the USA (at least in the past decade), and that is due in very large part to the capability and judgement of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Despite all the flak he has received from the western press, and some perhaps justifiable characterizations of him as an authoritarian and even Machiavellian leader (which may very well be considered a compliment depending on your perspective) if we consider results to be the ultimate arbiter of a political leader’s capability, then there can be no argument that Singapore’s success story is a living testament to his astute statesmanship.

    Despite the western press’ propensity of labeling Singapore as an Orwellian “big-brother” society, I have to say I felt as free growing up in Singapore as I do now living in the USA. Granted I don’t regularly write op-ed articles in the media bashing the government or the political leaders of the society I live in, and I’m sure that I would be better off living in a society like the USA were I to choose such an occupation. However, I would assert that for the average person, the far more important concerns are fulfilling basic needs such as providing a comfortable life for their family, ensuring a quality education for their children, and so on and so forth.

    The US government’s prediliction for preaching their brand of democracy around the world is in my opinion sincere but misguided especially given the state of affairs in American government today. The Republicans and Democrats in US Congress are reduced to fighting for fighting’s sake – they are more interested in their own partisan interests rather than in what is best for the country.

    Every year I return to Singapore and I see signs of change for the better. New light rail lines are built, old urban districts are renewed, and the population as a whole grows more affluent. Sure, there are negative aspects to growth such as overcrowding and increased cost of living, and Singapore is no exception. But which major city in the world can claim to have avoided such by-products of success?

    Lee Kuan Yew is the architect of modern Singapore, and I give him full credit for what he has achieved with that island state. Singapore is the mouse that roared.

  17. 17 AL

    My parents chose to move us to Singapore from one of the largest countries in the world when I was a little kid. Consequently, my siblings and I grew up in a secure and ingeniously-designed enclave and we enjoyed a superior education based purely on merit and hard work.

    Compared to many of our cousins and peers in the land where we were born, we are envied today not only for the respectable careers we hold, but also for the fact that the Singapore passport is warmly welcomed globally.

    One does not need to be a well-read person to know that Singapore is often associated with superlatives like : most globalised country in the world (according to A.T. Kearney’s Globalization Index)…. And more from Wikipedia: “world’s fourth leading financial centre and a cosmopolitan world city, playing a key role in international trade and finance…. the top five busiest ports in the world…The Economist Intelligence Unit in its “Quality-Of-Life Index” ranks Singapore as having the best quality of life in Asia and eleventh overall in the world. Singapore possesses the world’s ninth largest foreign reserves.

    After a contraction of -6.8% in the 4th quarter of 2009, Singapore claimed the title of fastest-growing economy in the world, with GDP growth of 17.9% in the first half of 2010.

    I read with much pride in Newsweek’s publication dated Aug 23 & 30, 2010, the cover title reads “The Best Country in the World is…” Singapore was mentioned numerous times in the international ranking and topping several categories (refer to

    I had the privilege to live and work in numerous cities globally. I have met many people who never failed to express their appreciation for my identity simply because I am a Singaporean. After expressing their utmost admiration and esteem for Lee Kuan Yew, these people often associated my competence, efficiency and productivity to the country that has molded me to what I am today.

    Quoting from Wikipedia again, “Indeed, the three decades in which Lee Kuan Yew held office, Singapore grew from being a developing country to one of the most developed nations in Asia, despite its small population, limited land space and lack of natural resources. Lee has often stated that Singapore’s only natural resources are its people and their strong work ethic. He is widely respected by many Singaporeans, particularly the older generation, who remember his inspiring leadership during independence and the separation from Malaysia.”

    Sandye Sanchez, if you have never had the opportunity to visit or live outside the United States, and if you have never read enough about a country’s struggle for survival, we don’t appreciate you for passing such judgmental comments on a leader who has sacrificially brought a country from the 3rd World to the 1st.

  18. Singapore is still a third world uncivilised place that should Never be compared to the United States, which BL mentions, “is a great country founded on admirable ideals.” The USA, with it’s masterpiece of a constitiution has the basic social foundation requred of Any civilised society – the principle of individual rights. The USA, whatever its ideals however, should never have supported the government of Lee Kuan Yew. Oh, Singapore has a constitiution too, which LKY, with all his capability and judgement, effectively destroyed and enslaved a population and made a mockery of the rule of law.

    No, rather compare the city of Singapore to Communist China or better yet – North Korea – as the comparisons are many. North Korea is run by a dictatorship also; a family dynasty that controlls it’s citizens with fear. It is a place just like Singapore where the news, all media, the police, the courts are all governemnt controlled. Citizens freedoms such as freedom of speech or right of assembly are also restricted, no jury trials and any dissent or oppostion is crushed. And North Korea also has the death Penalty. And Singapore has it’s own horrific Mandatory death penalty whereby teenage drug users are executed, and until recently had the highest per capita execution rate in the world.

    But, Singpapore does have one thing that North Korea does not have-the Perverted midieval ritual of Judicial Flogging males. The very idea of learned and educated judges court ordering and sentencing any man to be stripped Naked and tied or bound, as one would do to mistreat an animal, and have a sadist and or homosexual beat him repeatedly with a stick until he is scarred or mutilated, is an act of Torture not acceptable in modern first world countries and criminal in and of itself. These violent beatings of thousands of men annually in the prisons-even for immigration offences and other minor infractions, are sickeningly increasing. I read with disgust an article in international Newsweek July 9, 2010 in which Singapore is listed among “The most Barbaric punishments on Earth,” referring to these beatings. These whippings are wholeheartedly apporved by LKY with his violent brand of in-justice legalizing this brutality, as he ignores international standards and norms set by the United Nations against cruel, degrading and inhuman punishment, and considered Torture by Human Rights groups world wide.

    BL you say you felt free growing up in Singapore as you do now in the USA- But no matter the delusion, the fact remains –You were NOT FREE. You were not free to critisize or commend the government because your will and those of Singaporeans are restricted. Singapore today is still the place where authors, such British author Alan Shadrake, are arrested and put on trial for what they write. It is still the place of Bizzare laws and Barbaric penaltys. It is the place that bloggers on the internet are arrested and fined. Singapore is like a corporate entity, a place of commerce–but Not a place of Freedom. Any accomplishments of Singapore are overhadowed by the atrocities that Lee Kuan Yew and his henchmen are responsible for. But I am confident that he will receive the same as his judges tell men they sentence to Brutal Beatings–his “just desserts in full.” Whether I refer to the man as Yew or You, it is obvious to me and millions of others who the monster of Singapore really is.

  19. 19 lee fuck yew

    @ Sandye Sanchez

    i agree with your observations.

    its as i always say:sgp may be a first world country,but its society is mainly third world.

    supporters of pap is the one who will be the first to jump in and defend their policies of enslavement.they are akin to zealots and any attempts to present your otherwise views about the actual sitiuation in sgp is met with swift vilification that you are either a foreigner or a loser who blames everyone but themselves.and the ironic thing is,these are the very foreigners(intellects) whom the sgp government is trying to woo and they (the defenders) are keeping them out with their limited sophisticated view of the world.

    USA’s ideals was founded on the principle and i quote “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;”unquote.

    in sgp,its constitution is perverted by lee kwan yew and used for his own benefits as well as for his croonies.whatever the sgp people is guaranteed under this constitution was circumvented by another by-law,giving legitamacy to lky’s perverted view of democracy.its little wonder why there is hardly any patriotsim left in sgp.

    i served “national” service,only to find out that i am being replaced by foreign trash improted by pap.i paid my dues but i got short changed.

    this is how i am being repaid for “serving” my “country”?????

    so much for one people,one nation,one sgp.

  20. 20 Dusty Hondo

    Dear Lfy, I, like hundreds of thousands other Singapoeans also did our NS, and that’s just what we did, NS. I don’t consider that as actually serving my country, I didn’t go to war, was never shot at, never shot at anybody. In fact I believe non of us NSmen have ever seen any action except “gotong royong”, so what’s the big deal? In fact, looking back, I think I had a good time in the artillery, made many good friends, learned some survival skills that put me in good stead. I am a year short of sixty now and feels that the 2.5 yrs stint in the Arty was the most relax and stress free years of my life.

  21. 21 Nail

    I am not sure if you have gone through NS personally. Friends of mine dreaded when it is their turn for NS. But after they ORD and proceed on with life, looking back they are glad with this journey which they are ‘forced’ to go through. I have observed with my own eyes the exponential growth in their maturity before and after NS. No offense, but some of my female friends actually mentioned that guy who had gone through NS, the mentality is actually more matured than some foreigners as they may still appear childish in their age. You may not agree with me. No worries, that is just a point of view I have observed.

    There is a chinese saying which goes” Spare the rod, spoil the child’. I will rather the person who have proved to be guilty be caned in hope that he understand the pain he inflicted on others (such as molest, rape or in an attempted to injure others) and under the consequences he has to bear for his actions (bringing supply of drugs which create availability of such products which will destroy people’s lives etc). Rather waiting for things to happen when innocent people are injured and their loves one have to mourn for the lost (such as teenagers bring weapons to school like knives and guns and start killing people, like Columbine High School massacre). No amount of words will be able to smoothen the pain felt by those who have lost their loved ones by ‘freak’ accident. Prevention is better than cure..

  22. 22 lee fuck yew

    @dusty &nail

    its not about saying ns was bad,it has its plus and i for one would encourage it but its not for everybody.

    what i was saying is that we sgreans have a duty to our nation,to sgp(not pap,definitely not lky and his cronies)and serving ns was was our duty to serve,to protect and at some point,identify us as sgreans as we all share something in common.

    like what dusty have said,doing my ns was also the most stress free of my time.and thinking back,it wasn’t that bad but i also know not everybody can go through the psychological shock.i do give my due respect to the earlier batch of nsmen who was trained by isrealis,their training was,in my opinion,alot tougher than what some of our boys are doing…

    thing is we all have to sacrifice 2-2.5 years of our life serving ns,paying our dues because we are citizen of sgp.and the gov(elected by these very ppl)should look after the citizens,they should protect the rights of the citizens,they should put in safeguards to ensure that citizens matter,that citizens come first.

    instead,we got a gov who lets in foreign trash to take up jobs meant for sgreans,to give out citizenship to foreigners who did not even serve a day of ns,let alone have any loyalty to sgp,to take advantage of the local born sgrean and telling them they do not have the spurs in them,that local born sgrean’s concern at their welfare,children,jobs,welfare did not matter at all.

    this is what pap’s sgp have become,a business and true blue sgreans are short changed and digits to them.

    at the end of the day,what is it i am defending,what did i do ns for?

    my complaint gentlemen,is not why i have to do ns,my complaint is why didn’t pap,the gov of the day,not look after the very ppl they should be looking after.why didn’t they place the welfare and survival of the citizens first.why are they doing things to put locals at a disadvantage?this gentlemen is the crux of the question.why pro alien and not pro ppl?

  23. 23 Count


    The phrase “all men are created equal” is probably the least true phrase ever uttered by man. All you have to do is look around and you will find that though men may be born as a piece of paper, the sizes and composition of that paper are infinitely different.


    The prime difference between Singapore and North Korea is that in Singapore, we have the opportunity to succeed.

    Also, I tire of the incessant rants that SIngapore is a dynastic dictatorship etc etc. Countless politicians are themselves children of politicians. And lets not forget the various monarchies around the world.

    Also, freedom of the press usually degenerates into a pathetic mess of mudslinging. Writers MUST be responsible for what they write. I find it bizarre indeed that common citizens in America are able to sue for defamation, but politicians are denied this basic right to defend their reputations. Also, please note that the government does not sue against alternative policies or criticisms. If they did, the Singapore blogosphere would be a much emptier place. But they WILL act when it starts becoming personal and untrue. Is that not a logical thing to do?

    It seems to me that the only reason that foreigners focus so much on the government in Singapore is in part due to the fact that they are unable to accept that a socio-political system which is so different from theirs can succeed.

    Let me remind you. Too much of anything is a bad thing. Too much freedom breeds only chaos, just as too much authority breeds stagnation. Also, “absolutes” are the premise of zealots and the deluded. Human rights cannot be “absolutely” universal. Especially when talking about criminals who already know the punishments, and yet commit the crime. They gambled, and they lost. Its time for the house to collect.

  24. 24 Count


    Females do not serve NS. Are they less ‘SIngaporean’ than the males?

    New citizens did not serve NS. Do they contribute less to SIngapore?

    Being born in Singapore does not, and indeed, SHOULD NOT automatically give you a guarantee that you will have a good life or good job. It is the same as a paper qualification. It is simply a key. You must still find, open, and walk through the door.

    You were lucky enough to be born in Singapore. You enjoyed a cheap, yet good education. You did not have to look over you back whenever you walked home. You were not dragged into any conflicts or wars.

    But most importantly, you were born in a country where the child of a hawker will face few difficulties in achieving more than the child of a CEO. Indeed, they usually do.

    In essence, the government has already given you most of the tools needed to succeed in life. Education, Affluence, Safety, Exposure etc etc. But YOU are the one who has to make the most of it.

    Its easy to blame the government whenever life goes wrong. More so, when the government is characterized by a single party. WORSE, when that party is personified by a single man. The phrase “with great power comes great responsibility” comes to mind. The author seemed to forget too add the word ‘expectations’.

    Lastly, this may seem elitist, but i was never one for political correctness in any case. If you find the cauldron too hot, you are, as always, free to jump out. Just remember to avoid the fire. Not to mention the knife-wielding chef.

  25. 25 Lee fuck yew


    I think you tried to debate with the ppl at TR,i read your posts.and personally i think it come across as rather apologetic.

    i am not saying it should guarantee me to make it in life jus for being a sgrean.i am asking not to be penalised for being one.seriously,you think importing 100k more foreigners to take up jobs that no sgreans can take up would not affect us as a whole?

    jus so you know,a son of a hawker can make it in life,as do a son of a CEO but you forget,the CEO has on his disposal,resources that the hawker cannot even dream of affording,so tell me,what kind of playing field are you talking about here?

    life’s unfair? That’s no truer than the truth itself,that is why we have people who try to make it fairer for others,it takes compassion to empathise with the people who are put at a disadvantage position in life,help them and not penalise them for being who they are.Is pap doing that?did pap introduced policies to help the disadvantaged?did they consult the people in regards to new policies?were they held accountable for their mistakes and failures?

    my education came about not because the gov gave it to me(unlike in america),it came about because my father have to pay for my education(in cash and in taxes) and later in life,i paid for it myself.the gov did not give it to me free,i have to do NS(and TEN YEARS OF RESERVIST,which part you consider as duty and which part as repayment,i’ll let you decide) to “repay” the so call education they “gave” which part did the gov “give” me?you think if i didn’t pay my sch fees i will get a free education?

    the tools you mentioned is almost a guarantee in most first world,developed a given.if u want to compare might as well compare ourself to north korea.its nice to even have food to eat in sgp.or even have air con at our do not just see one side of the coin,see the other side as well.

    simply put,we have a few ppl in sgp who have benefitted greatly from pap policies at the expenses of many others.these are the very ppl who would not hesistate to put ppl like me down,in the name of self reliance,fear mongering and what not.

    i relied on myself to get to where i am today,yet i feel the need to help those who are put at a disadvantage,to speak out for those who are unable to,to help those who have injustise done to them.

    so why are you,putting me down when i try to speak up for my fellow sgrean brothers and sisters who cannot???

  26. 26 Count

    Of course i would come across as being apologetic when viewed with that background. That is a given. Grey, when viewed against black, would appear white indeed.

    Its good that you do not think that being a SIngaporean guarantees you a good life in your home country. However, you must agree that this nationalistic rhetoric is being spouted left right and centre at TR. I apologize if i assumed wrongly.

    Then again, why do you think that Singaporeans are being penalized in their own home? Most foreigners work here in the absolute lowest end of the job spectrum. A portion that Singaporeans do not wish, and indeed should NOT be in. These do not bear complaining, as after all, with all the money that the government has invested in your education, sweeping the floor would be a great waste. Most of these workers are under work permits anyway. They would not be allowed to integrate into SIngapore as a whole.

    Other foreigners work in middle management. This is, i believe, the area most TR citizens have a problem with. However, this is another point that does not bear the criticism. Many of the foreigners here ARE qualified to do their jobs. They also contribute to the economy. Not only that, many wish to convert into PRs and subsequently, into citizens. Now i ask you. Should these people be denied jobs and a home that they desire just because they were born in another country? I say not. These people have as much right to be here as the rest of us. If they respect our laws and our way of life, then they SHOULD integrate into SIngapore. We would be all the stronger for it.

    I also disagree with your second point. Yes, the CEO would indeed have many more resources than the hawker. HOWEVER, that came from his position. Something that he achieved. Why should he be barred from using those resources on his child?

    Indeed, there will never be a level playing field. Indeed, the government should make the playing field MORE level. But it can never be fully level. Even if the question of resources is resolved and every student is barred from external tuition and the like, the field will still never be level. One may be born smarter. Another may be more hardworking. How do you resolve THESE differences? These aspects are the same as resources. The child was born in a rich family Even if they are barred from tuition, the parents will still buy other materials to give that child a head start.

    Also, in my opinion, the education system, though flawed in its output, is already incredibly fair in terms of the opportunities offered to students. There are few private schools, and all schools charge approximately the same fees. In addition, entry is based on either your raw score, or proximity to the school. Moreover, the government mandates that every child must be given an education. How much more level can it get?

    Another point. Are you aware that unlike the US, personal income tax only accounts for a small fraction of the revenue of IRAS? Taxes from companies contribute much more. Your education indeed comes because of the government. Do you really think that the taxes your parents pay are enough to pay for the things you have received? Lets not forget that each person pays a different amount of taxes.

    In effect, the government gets money from a myriad of different sources, and distributes them in reverse order. Those who contribute the most, get the least back (Directly). I dislike it when people place too great a level of importance on the taxes they or their parents pay. Especially in Singapore where, as stated earlier, income tax only accounts for a small fraction of total income. If anything, it is the taxes that MNCs pay that are contributing to your education. Not your personal taxes. Not your school fees. You think the few dollars you pay a month are enough to pay for your education?

    However, i think of NS as a duty and hence have excluded it from the equation. Debatable.

    Finally, i also tire of the incessant claims that PAP policies have benefited only a few while sacrificing all the rest. I find it simply untrue. Where do you find the evidence to support such claims? We have no slums. Unemployment is low. Consumer spending is high. Both the property market and the vehicle market are still booming. All point to the basic fact that MOST singaporeans have benefitted from the PAPs policies, and only a few have been left behind, which i remind you, will inevitably happen. As long as the government does the MOST good to the MOST number of people, everything would be fine.

    Just because i dispute your points does not mean that i do not wish to speak up or help those less privileged. I simply find that the points you make would do little, if any, to help them. Freedom of the press? Oppositions for the sake of opposition? I can’t eat freedom, and if the SDP’s alternative policies on the HDB are anything to go by, I sure as hell do NOT want them in parliament.

    Once again, I am not putting you down. I simply disagree with what you say and claim. Even your nickname grates.

    P.S. ‘Freedom of the press? Oppositions for the sake of opposition?’ Were based on popular claims among TR users and may not represent your personal views

  27. 27 lee fuck yew

    what the ppl is spouting at TR on nationalism shows how they take pride in sgp.that has in some way, shows how fustrated they are when prs and citizenships are given away like freebies and there is no differentiation between foreigners,prs and citizens.seriously you need a massage girl working in a massage parlour being a citizen??

    your second point about work permit holders is absolutely wrong.i have seen ppl holding work permits getting prs and ultimately getting citizenship.these people are not taking lower end jobs like sweeping the road.i have seen office workers,admin staff,accounts assistants,taking up work permit because of their pay scale,circumventing the MOM rules.You want to tell me the current job market now is not like that?the situation is that only road sweepers are holding to work permit?

    after investing in higher education and constantly telling pple to upgrade and update themselves,pap gov still want foreigners to take up middle management jobs?its not about if they are qualified or not,its about why not hire an equally qualified local.with almost 3 million working adults in sgp,there isn’t one who is qualified to take up middle management jobs?why is it so easy to let them in to sgp take up jobs meant for locals?you want to tell me these people are such talents that u need a phd to take up a manager’s job?phds that only forengners have and are the only qualified ones?

    the right to be here is you surely know,not every country recognises the right for people to be in their country.

    you recognised the fact that the son of the CEO has at his disposal resources that the hawker do not have,that will not level the playing field,so the point here is not denying his use of resources but to recognise there is a need to level the playing field.

    level the playing field and let the character of the child take over.if he is smart,let his intellegence lead him to the future he wants.if he is hardworking,let his hard work be rewarded.on this aspect,at least the child have the chance to break free of his own class restrction and not perpetuate the vicious cycle.

    fair in term of opportunities?have you taken a look at how much foreigners are in local schools?their country do not have a good enough education system that they need to come here to seek a proper education?if thats the case,isn’t it contradictory to say foreigners are qualified to take up middle management jobs yet they do not have a qualified education to make them qualified in the first place?have you any idea how many percent of places are actually being reserved for such FTs?

    as for the taxes being paid here in sgp,let get real here,when i say i pay taxes,i pay direct and indirect taxes.and that goes to pay for a lot of things,not just my education.on top of that you think if i stopped paying school fees the gov will give me a place in school?in the words of the old man:get real.pap gov never give out anything for free,let alone education.these are all paid for in exchange for the services rendered.a transaction.just the way pap does things and run this country.and i paid for everything inmore ways than jus monetry.

    pap policies have indeed improvished many and benefitted a few(leeNlee law firm doing hdb stamping…..key lee ppl in gov places being paid a few million a year….TH…you get the drift),i gather that you must be one of them since you seem to defend them,although not outright at some areas.i never deny the fact that i have benefitted from their policies,but i recognised the fact that there are others who suffered when i this aspect,pap have failed to recognised that and help these people left behind.where is the compassion?you mean to tell me that these people didn’t contribute to the country?that they deserve to be left behind?that they should not have someone standing up for them and speak up to remind pap that they too are human,that they too deserve compassion and help,this is the most basic human compassion one can show another,is to help them when they are down and out.

    you find my point can do little to help them,that may be true,but a little help can go a long them not kick them.have you ask them what is it they needed to help them get back on their feet?did you bother to see the kind of living conditions they are living?

    pap have been raising hdb prices for the longest time have any idea what does hdb stand for?do you know what is affordable public housing?do you know what is cost based pricing?pegging hdb flats to market rates is hardly what is was set up to do in the first place(and paying $1 for the land the flats are built on..yeah,thats market rate for you).that goes against the very principle of public housing and affordable.and if pap polices is anything to go by,i SURE AS HELL DO NOT WANT THEM AROUND ANY LONGER.

    i oppose pap because i have seen how self-serving these people are.honest mistake?lets move on?caught off-guard?multi-million dollar salaries with ZERO accountability and expect me to let them get away with these lame excuses?

    the ppl at TR may have their rhetoric about free press,oppose for the sake of opposing and whatnots.

    Oppression is oppression. i have seen with my own 2 eyes the oppression dished out by pap and their gov.policies enacted to preserve their position in power in exchange for civil liberties.and abusing the juducial system to meet their needs.if this gov(pap) is representative of sgp,then i want no part in their scheme and will do all,in my constituional rights (whatever is left of it) to remove pap as the curent gov and to oppose them and their skewed polices.

    so yeah,until pap is removed and their skewed policies repealed,the oppositions for the sake of opposition lies very true wuth me. (:

  28. 28 Grateful Singaporean

    Singapore survived and become a great city state because of a great statesman, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew. Words cannot express our gratitude to MM Lee , Mrs Lee and PAP have done for us and Singapore. How blessed and fortunate we Singaporeans are to have Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew and PAP governing the country.

    My salute to MM Lee Kuan Yew ♥ a great man of high integrity, foresight, vision and perseverance

  29. 29 patriot

    When me was a teen in the sixties, Singapore, where i am born, was a nice place.
    Fifty years later, it turns horrid, the air is not as fresh, most food materials are worst. It used to be fresh vegetables, fish, poultries and meats and cost so much cheaper, in short, fresh, cheaper and more importantly healthier.

    The greatest loss that me feels and laments was harmony, not just racial harmony, there were harmony of communalility, fellowships of kampong folks, working colleagues, social, cultural and societal programmes. Co-operation was the motto not competition. Competition by the way no matter how ‘friendly’ is still pretentious and divisive.

    So friendly competition was adopted nationally in the developments of Sin, so that when Singaporeans compete and naturally divide, it is much easier to rule. The number one strategem was working beautifully and give birth to a second strategem and that is greed is good. It was explained that greed provides the impetus to compete, a driving force so to say, which will inevitably leads to success(financially) and wellbeing. Both strategems were made to sound so benign and innocuous.

    To cut the story short, today Singaporeans are divided in wealth, power, education, healthcare and what not with about 20% living comfortably and 40% or there about struggling and the in-between middle class slowly joining the lower 40%.


    Democracy has benefitted all Singaporeans, all are equal, with about 20% more equal or ‘equaler’ if me may emulate one of the cabinet members. Some are filthy rich and untouchable in Sin. Some are so powerful, they can refuse to listen and become deaf frogs.

    How good is Sin today?

    Very individual la, up to You to interpret.

    Me just missed my good old days and so are many people of the older generations.

    Good Night.


  30. 30 Count

    Like i said. Too much nationalism, as exhibited in TR, is as bad as racism and sexism. Completely illogical. Frustrated? I see it more as ‘narrow-minded’. And lets be honest here. They aren’t complaining about ‘massage girls’ becoming citizens. And as we all know, the examples of that happening are pathetically few and far between. What most of the people in TR can’t seem to stand are ‘foreign trash stealing their rice bowl’. In essence, they can’t stand citizenship being given to foreigners working in middle management. And as I have explained earlier, their complaints do not stand. Foreigners working in middle management and above are exactly the type of people we should be attracting.

    Also, YOUR second point about my second point is wrong. A few examples do not make the whole. It is apparent that few TR commentators can come up with effective arguments. But does that mean that all TR commentators are the same? Surely not. It is indeed true that there are certain youths who are affiliated with gangs, and are apparently unable to differentiate right from wrong. But does that mean that you should avoid every youth with a spiky haircut? Thats just stupid.

    Yes there are those who take advantage of loopholes to, in turn, take advantage of Singaporeans as a whole. But the fact remains that the laws are enforced well, and these examples are few. And that is all that matters. The government is wholly against tax dodging. And enforcement in this area is strict and pervasive. But does that mean that no one dodges taxes in Singapore? Obviously not. Loopholes and people taking advantage of them are a fact of life. As long as that number is not too large, live with it.

    As for your third point, I shall just phrase it like this. It is easier to create jobs, than it is to create babies. Also, qualifications have the tiniest of effects on management posts. As long as you have a degree from a good university, then you will qualify for almost any related management posts. BUT that does not mean that you will GET the post. As I am sure you know, management hinges on much more than simple qualifications. There are countless other factors that influence the management abilities of an individual.

    Also, the largest number of Singaporeans (by percentage) being displaced by foreigners in the workforce comes from menial labour. Not middle management. That is why government efforts centre around things like hospitality and engineering. Not management.

    And once again, lets be honest. If you are unable to impress your superior, despite having been in the same department as him/her for the past few years, and has to be kicked out in favor of a new person, then you truly do not deserve the job. And save me the ‘foreign talents are cheaper’ argument. If your boss chooses his manager based solely on the salary he has to pay, then you are better off being out of that company.

    As for education, I shall re-stress my point. It will NEVER be level. But it is already as level as it should be, and as we can reasonably make it be. Of course, an educational system where a child’s background does not have any effect whatsoever on his/her achievements is beautiful. BUT it is merely theoretical. HOW, I ask you, will you achieve such a utopian goal? Ban tuition? There will always be ways around it. Ban assessment books? What about encyclopedias? Why don’t we take every child from their parents as soon as they are born and raise them, equally, in state-run schools? Even then, it can be argued that intelligence is hereditary.

    An idealistic vision, without a viable plan, is simply a mirage. It looks nice. But it will kill you.

    As for taxes…. Lets really get real shall we? “on top of that you think if i stopped paying school fees the gov will give me a place in school?” Of course not. If you cannot afford that measly sum of money, and yet refuse government help, then indeed, you do not deserve any place in the system. And I say again. Do you truly think that the sum of money you pay every year is enough to pay for everything the government has spent? Don’t give me that direct indirect tax argument. Other than in taxes, how else does the average Singaporean contribute to Singapore?

    If we really get real, the reality is simply this. The average Singaporean simply does not contribute much to Singapore at all. In fact, it is the multi-national companies, the millionaires, and the ‘foreign talents’ (the real ones) who are contributing the most to Singapore. As it should be. Do not confuse the contributions of many with the contributions of a single person.

    If your viewpoint that ‘benefitting the few’ refers to the Lee family, then your viewpoint is skewed indeed. Lets ‘get real’ again shall we? Look out at any expressway during rush hour. See and marvel and the insane number of cars. Look at your beloved HDB price statistics. Then recall the number of buyers.

    Do all of this, and stare in the face of the greatest logical flaw in the opposition’s economical arguments, that people like you seem to lap up just as you accuse others of lapping up the mainstream media.

    Constant complaints about poor Singaporeans, followed immediately by rhetoric about rising prices. Well, I know what affordable is. Its when most of the market can afford it. That, sadly, seems to be the case right now.

    A country is like a clock. The government is its face and hands. The various companies and industry titans are the various gears that drive it. But what powers it? It is indeed the common people. The drive spring. BUT each average SIngaporean is merely a tiny particle in that drive spring. If one is lost, do you really think that there will be much effect? Lose a gear and the clock grinds to a halt. Lose a particle of the drive spring, and the clock continues ticking away.

    You wanted reality? There it is. Also, it is infinitely easy to dismiss everybody better than you as being self-serving and corrupt and selfish and the like. Its human nature after all.

  31. 31 lee fuck yew

    narrow minded?how is being replaced by a ft and getting angry for being replaced is called narrow minded?why is there a need to attract middle management ppl and above in the first place?

    does sgp lack these talents?if it is lacking,shouldn’t the gov look at what went wrong with their policies and not, instead,open the floodgates to foreigners and displacing sgreans jus because there is a “talent” shortage.kindly tell me,has the gov define what is “talent”?any tom,dick and harry can be talent in this instance.and on top of it,giving citizenship to these ppl jus because they “contributed”?

    the question here is why is there a need since we are already first class as proudly claimed by old man lee himself?

    and your few shining examples of a few foreigners with desire to set up home here represent the whole?what makes you so sure ppl at TR are unhappy with FTs who have a genuine heart to set up homes here?aren’t you just as guilty of over-generalization? or you simply are daft to the obvious?

    as for the loophole,yeah,its not too large we can live with it… real.we understand there is a loophole,the fact the it still remains open and not close is a problem standing out like a sore thumb.sgp have claimed itself with a very efficient gov with world class standards and to let this loophole left open and not recognising this loopholes(let alone doing something about it)how can this be?this does not do justice to the claims of world class.i am not asking for perfection,i am asking for recognition of the it that hard to admit there is a problem?

    you claimed the largest number of sgreans be displace by “FTs” are in menial labour,that trend is slowly changing to PMETs as should take a walk at the CBD area to see how many “FTs” are there,you should take a walk around the city areas as well as the heartlands to see how many “FTs” are there displacing mean to tell me the service industry is menial?office work is menial?driving a bus is menial?

    when these locals are being displaced where do they go?no where?die on the streets?become beggars?is this what you mean by better off?had old fart claimed this is a capitalistic country,i wouldn’t have any qualms about it.the fact that he claims this is a meritocracy and yet equally abled locals are being replace jus because they are more expensive makes this claim a farce along with your claims.

    save you the argument that “FTs” are cheaper?FTs are indeed cheaper.go ask any accountant and let that person calculate for you how much of a savings the co. can achieve just by hiring “FTs”.

    you completely missed my point on education.what i was saying is gov SHOULD TRY to provide a level playing field.based on merit to let the child into good doesn’t matter what resources is made available to the richer parent.if the child is smart and intellegent,and that he has a good enough grade to enter into the school,let him in.not promote biasness in allowing a child to enter into certain schools and gov’s policies should not promote such practices of biasness.

    you don’t really know the workings of tax in sgp don’t in sgp we are forced to pay indirect taxes(on top of direct taxes) the moment we step out to think the taxes i pay don’t go into paying services for the gov?and how else does the average sgrean contribute?your statements have ommitted the fact that there are many ways in which the “average” sgrean contribute.paying taxes is one of them.serving ns is one of them(debatable or not,take your pick).having babies is one of them.creating jobs through entrepreneurships.these are one of the many way “average” sgreans contribute.average sgrean do not contribute?yeah,lets see who will work this economy when sgreans didn’t contribute.more import of your beloved “FTs”?how about getting “FTs” to do ns as well?

    and you wonder why so many are trying to own cars?ever took a ride at public transport?how many of these ppl are actually middle-high earners who can actually afford a car???hdb prices going through the roof and its affordable?you telling me carrying a 30 year loan on a house LEASED to us from the gov is affordable?you need to get real and start showing me some facts not already shot down by other ppl.(think mah bow tan arguements on HDB being AFFORDABLE.)

    most of the market can afford it by paying through their nose for it.serously where is the justification of paying 300k for a house leased from hdb?and what is meant by affordable in your definition?you want to give me the argument that land is scarce in sgp,that is why properties are so expensive?don’t shoot yourself trying to answer this question.

    the reality of the fact is in pap’s sgp many of these “particles” are showing signs of displeasure at YOUR facts of so readily defend the polices of pap to “attract” fts without due consideration of the effect it might bring to sgp’s economy as well as to its “particles”.i can only come to a conclusion that you are benefitting immensely from their policies and to see some form of change would be detrimental to you.

    i have already made know in my previous postings,the gov need to be more compassionate and show that its duty is to the welfare of the ppl,not giving themselves 8.8% pay raise and then blaming the ppl for not having the spurs and in turn justifying the mass import of FTs.this gov is lacking compassion and have lost touch with the sentiments on the ground.a change is most welcome.and reppealing its dragonian and self serving polices is the number one thing that shoud be done when and should the opps come into power.

    so i ask,why are you so afraid of recognising there is a problem with the current gov?why are you afraid of looking at the problems that this gov has created due to its policies?why are you so readily mixing capitalism with “meritocracy”?

  32. 32 Count

    It is narrow-minded simply because you are continuously referring to them as foreign talents only out to steal your life bowl when they have just as much right to compete with you for a job. It is narrow-minded because you refuse to accept that there are other reasons for the government to attract foreigners. Read this again. “It is easier to create jobs, than it is to create babies.”.

    Also, you misunderstand a key principle about the attracting of foreign talents. The government attracts them NOT because there is a shortage of middle management jobs, but rather, because it is the section of the population where the largest number of people can be integrated into. Singapore’s labour market is not contracting. It is not stagnant. It is expanding, and expanding at a rate where local births are unable to reasonably keep up. Should Singapore’s growth be stalled simply because of nationalistic rhetoric?

    What makes me so sure about the average TR reader’s response? Are you blind? Have you seen the nationalistic bias those people have shown? Even an indian sounding name can be constituted as being non-singaporean and just another foreign robber. Even Ivy Singh Lim can be mocked for having a foreign sounding name. Is that not enough proof?

    The key difference is that most foreigners who take up PR status and subsequently citizenship indeed have the heart to settle here. Do not deny that. And the average TR reader has been so steeped in nationalistic rhetoric that all he can do is endlessly reproduce it. That is also a fact that cannot be denied. You are the one who is blind to the obvious.

    Not recognizing the loophole? Yeah. So if the white house was to have a secret entrance, should the US government recognize it as well? Why do you want to publicly recognize something when doing so will only make the problem worse? Are you daft?

    Doing something about it? Once again you demonstrate your penchant for idealism. Allow me give you a real world example. Many hawkers cheat on taxes. They simply under-declare what they earn. Do you think that IRAS will send people to check on each and every hawker in SIngapore? Do you think that these people will bother checking how many bowls of laksa each hawker sells? When the amount of taxes that they dodge constitute the most pathetic of amounts? Doing so, though indeed an example of “doing the right thing”, is simply inefficient, and hence, illogical. More trouble than it is worth.

    You mean driving a bus is not menial work? You mean front line service is not menial work? You mean being a secretary and an all around office jockey is not menial work? If that is so, you have the wrong definition of menial my friend. Menial work is by definition, a job that does not require much skill, and lacking prestige. That certainly encompasses every job you have just listed.

    Also, you seem to be confusing an increase in foreigners with an increase in the number of Singaporeans being displaced. There are many other variables that have to be recognized. As stated before, the job market of Singapore is increasing in size. That is how the unemployment stays low, despite the increase in foreigners. There is also the fact that the number of people retiring each year is increasing, while the number of “true-blue native Singaporeans” entering the work force is unable to replace them. Instead of thinking “Oh the number of foreigners are increasing, so Singaporeans are definitely being put out of a job”, recognize that there are a myriad of other factors that affect unemployment. Unemployment in SIngapore is still low. Thats proof enough.

    The few locals who have indeed been displaced do not go off to die. Nor will the government let them. Do not let your bias against the government cloud your judgement. People who are displaced are encouraged to retrain, something that only Singaporeans are being offered, so that they will have a better chance of competing in the market. DO not act as if this is not happening.

    You will also be well served to read through my post again. “save me the argument” means that I already recognize the argument, and do not wish you to waste my time by repeating it again. It does not mean that I deny its existence. But as i pointed out, if a management position is given solely on monetary cost, then the company is sad indeed.

    My point on education, as well as supporting evidence, has been repeated ad infinitum. So, i shall condense it for the last time. The education system in Singapore will NEVER be equal. However, it has already been made as equal as one can reasonably expect. Give me an example on how you propose to create this equal society you so desire that the government has not already achieved.

    I don’t understand the tax regulations in Singapore? Now THAT is indeed jumping to conclusions. Forced to pay indirect taxes? Have you ever considered the fact that perhaps other people may be forced to pay even MORE indirect taxes? Wax on about direct and indirect taxes all you wish. It does not detract from the fact that the average SIngaporean pays much lesser taxes than the companies operating in Singapore, and hence, as a direct result, the average SIngaporean contributes much less than he is getting back in monetary terms.

    You also seem to have confused yourself. Be it because of your inherent bias, or because of genuine misunderstanding, i do not care. But, though average singaporeans indeed contribute to the lion’s share of the economy, THE average Singaporean contributes pittance, and they should recognize it as such, instead of having an over-inflated sense of self worth.

    Creating jobs through entrepreneurship? This is the average SIngaporean we are talking about. Not some millionaire industry titan. Get your perspectives right.

    Once again, you jump to conclusions. Surprisingly, I HAVE taken public transport recently. Not only that, I have also taken public transport in a whole range of different nations. ANd from there, I am indeed qualified to state, that rush hour in an MRT is luxurious compared to rush hour elsewhere. And i’m not only talking about the age old example of Japan. I’m talking about literally, almost every modern city in the world. I still see many people reading the newspaper on the trains. Thats says quite a lot about the subject.

    How many of them are medium-high income earners who can afford a car? Few indeed. Even medium-LOW income earners strive to have a car, and many pay an arm and a leg just to have one. Not because they fear the perils of public transport, but because they crave the status that it commands. Says quite a bit about the Singaporean psyche doesn’t it?

    Prices going through the roof is affordable? Well yeah. Especially when scores of people are still willing to pay for it. When many people think that they are able to afford it, it makes the object affordable.

    Now I am assuming, but on the chance that you desire US and UK and Australian standards of housing affordability, I advise you to just pack up and leave. There is NO WAY Singapore can provide that level of affordability. If Singapore were just one big urban suburbia, then we would be lucky to be able to house a mere one million of the population.

    Once again, lets get real shall we? Your very insistence that I not repeat Minister Mah’s points on housing affordability on the claim that they have ‘already been shot down’ spanks of hypocrisy when you are repeating points that have already been shot down by Minister Mah’s comments themselves.A debate will never end when the definitions on key points are not agreed upon. One party demands a US suburbia standard of housing. The other compares SIngapore with Tokyo and Hong Kong, and draw favorable conclusions. This will never end.

    Finally, I can safely say, that I have in no way benefitted ‘tremendously’ from the PAP’s policies. Certainly not more than the next Singaporean. Is it so hard to understand that, perhaps, the PAP’s policies are actually good for Singapore? And that there are people, who are not the ‘blind sheep’ that TR commentators so artfully characterize us as, who actually support many of the PAP’s policies after going through a logical evaluation of it? Is “someone better than you who is working to better you and for you to be better” so hard to stomach?

    I am not afraid of recognizing problems that certain issues may bring. I hate the fact that many of our ministers are exceedingly bad at public speaking. I fear the growing apathy among youths that is evident all around. I am still thinking of ways that can alleviate the inevitable tax increase due to an aging population.

    But I do not find your arguments to be logically sound. Pardon me for saying so, but I too feel the need for you to provide me with facts that have not been shot down by the government. Think TR’s arguments on anything politically related.

    And don’t try to turn my argument against me. Housing affordability is infinitely debatable when we go into the definitions of affordability and location. But how will you create your equal education system? How will you select students for primary school based only on meritocracy? Where are the enormous numbers of displaced Singaporeans that you constantly claim is being produced? Where, pray tell, are the many impoverished Singaporeans that you claim has resulted from the PAP’s policies?

  33. 33 Lee fuck yew

    Lets get one thing straight,i am not against FTalents coming here to get work or citizenship.what i am against is the gov polices of allowing FTrash in easily as well as letting them get citizenship and other “perks”.something which should have been very clear to you in my previous arguments.

    as for presenting you with facts about points not shot down by the gov,really?you get your news from which MSM again?and if TR’s articles is nothing but politically motivated,then MSM is guiltly of the same as well.

    If i am idealistic,don’t fault me for it.LKY was once idealistic as well,see how he turned out in the end?

    This argument has gone to the point where one cynic/zealot/apologist/defender is trying to convince the other into accepting his/her views on the same subject.And I do not see anymore reasons why i, or rather, we should dance around the same issues with such differring views.

    You have your right to believe what you think is right or wrong and I am entitled the same as well and i respect your views in that perspective.

    Finally you will not find conformity within me to your views as i will not find in you.

    so have a good day count (:

  34. 34 Dirty Harry

    Good word —–To Grateful Singaporean

    @Lee fuck yew -Do you fell Luck you Punk..,,,,,,,

    Saluting an incredible Leader == Sometimes you need to dirty your Hands to clean the Dirt.. It is Ok wa.

    The day Harry is gone! what may Happen to Singapore?organized crime syndicates and Secret Societies a comeback in Singapore!

    Six suspects in Bukit Panjang slashing attacks likely to be detained under CL

  35. 35 RICHARD

    SANDYE SANCHEZ is correct about lee kuan yew.

  36. 36 sky

    it is true that singapore is a much better place if the govt does away with barbaric flogging. they can keep the hanging. all in all singapore is a great place.

  37. 37 BE

    Sngapore is a country that promotes responsibility.
    If you dare to commit the crime, YOU HAVE TO FACE THE MUSIC.
    In fact i think that the pain cause by flogging, is still far behind the pain inflicted on molestation victims, rape victims.

    In fact i feel that some netizens here are not basing their arguments with hard solid facts but just fluttery description and manipulative use of the english language.

  38. @ BE
    Singapore is not at all a responsible country promoting responsibility. The multi-million dollar leaders of Lee have neither responsibility nor accountability.

    And, it isn’t just rapists, but non violent male offenders of the law such as immigrants or those convicted of vandalism that have brute violence used against them. The entire judicial system with one set of laws for males that include torture, and the other set of laws for females that do not, is unjust and discriminating agaisnt males to begin with. The current Flogging frenzy in Singapore is indeed a severe sickness that has infected this city state–But, there is a cure, and it is the abolishment of this evil sadisic savagery.

    @ Count
    No matter what politicians or children of politicians or monarchies in the world call themselves, Singapore is still a dynastic dictatorship. So please do not be afraid to call it what it is.

    I will still maintain that the prime difference between Singapore and N. Korea is the absence of barbaric judicial beatings of men (that includes N. Korea’s military). Singapore still retains its inhuman acts, even in it’s military, and is the only known country in the today’s world to do so.

    It is unfortunate that those that promote Singapore’s socio political system, which is based on extremism and barbarity, have such a skewed narrow minded view of Singapore’s place in the international community at large. They must realize that In order to be a civilised first world society that truly differs from places such as reclusive N. Korea, they must be willing and and able to accept the premise that Human Rights ARE absolutely universal, and the fact that they must play on an international stage. Therefore Singapore cannot continue to “collect” in the illegal manner in which it does in order to try to succeed, even when considering criminals who knew the punishment, committed crimes, gambled and lost–because the “house has broken the rules.”

  39. 39 Count


    Your reply is truly both naive and misinformed.

    1) Last i heard, political dynasties exist everywhere. India has their Gandhis, Pakistan has their Bhuttos, the Philippines have their Aquinos, and i can’t even begin to count the number of dynasties in the States. The child of a politician is the person best suited to continue that position, simply because he or she has been exposed to it from an early age. And a dictatorship? Why not come over and see how dictatorial we are? You would be surprised as to the difference between other ‘dictatorships’ and us.

    2) You speak of ‘beatings’ with such revulsion and disgust. But it is quite simple. The penalties for ALL the laws are there for anyone to see. If you gamble and lose, then take the punishment.

    I also need to question why corporal punishment is seen as inhumane. Is it that much worse than a fine that will bankrupt you? Or a jail term stretching into the horizon? One would likely destroy your family, and likely your life, and the other is just a waste of both time and money. And in the case of the US, sexual damage as well.

    “The very idea of learned and educated judges court ordering and sentencing any man to be stripped Naked and tied or bound, as one would do to mistreat an animal, and have a sadist and or homosexual beat him repeatedly with a stick until he is scarred or mutilated, is an act of Torture not acceptable in modern first world countries and criminal in and of itself. ”

    The fact of the matter is this. When you strip away all the ‘flowery words’, it all comes down to an offender taking the punishment that is due to him. Nothing more.

    3) Also, you aren’t really one to talk about us having a ‘skewed narrow-minded view’. Human rights are absolutely universal? The only thing ‘absolute’ in this world is that NOTHING is absolute. Forced migration of Roma immigrants? Invasion of other countries? How about something closer to home? Bullying? Discrimination? Apparently, human rights are only universal when the person shouting about it needs it to be.

    As I have said my first post:

    “I think it all comes down to the individual. Do you believe that personal freedoms are completely non-negotiable? Or do you recognise that concessions must be made for the bigger picture? Both have their own valid points. Sanchez believes in the former, Mr Lee seems to believe in the latter. I personally believe that the ends do not justify the means, but then again, believing too much in the former seems abit naive.”

    I shall add to that. Believing that only human rights and freedom can magically guarantee the safety, prosperity, stability and happiness of a people is the very definition of naivete. Condemning other forms of governance as dictatorships and un-democratic smacks of hypocrisy.

    Your beloved systems of checks and balances is one of the prime reasons for the stagnation of almost half of the worlds economies. Governments more concerned about winning votes than actually governing the country. A system that promotes strife and conflict rather than cooperation and harmony. A system that results in,

    a) a population overly fixated on scandals rather than results
    b) a government mired in endless and brainless rhetoric that can’t even agree on what is best for the people.

  40. 40 hwee ming

    Dear Fellow Singapore,
    Singapore did not become what it is today without a good government. Managing a country is not an easy job and therefore, for those who are not good enough or committed enough to even try to make a difference, maybe, we should just keep quiet. Alternatively, join the grassroot and do something to make a difference.
    I am shock to read certain things written about our political leaders. The disrespect some people have for OUR OWN LEADERS is terrible. I don’t think one should be so rude to others let alone they are people who works for our country.

    For you who are that unhappy, do you think you want to live in another country? Do you prefer to live in Hong Kong or Shanghai where houses are much more expensive than Singapore and smaller? Salary level is not higher either? I sure know what I am talking about cos’ I lived in Shanghai for 2 years and spent a lot of time in HK.

    Or, do you want to live in the beautiful Sweden where having maids is not an option, almost everything is DIY? Then, maybe you will not have time to post the rude messages 🙂

    No government is perfect and certainly no systems is perfect. Of course, there are always plenty to do for improvement which I agree. There are a lot more our government can do.

    Be constructive if you have the ability, join the grassroot or do something to help your situation if you are that unhappy.

    At the very least, please do not write something that rude towards people who are working for our country. It reflects so bad on we fellow Singaporeans.

    Dear Foreigners,

    You are a guests in this country. When I was a guest in HK, Shanghai and Sweden, I tried to understand their systems and why the situations are what they are.

    Yes, I do joke about certain things privately sometimes. of course, there are always things which I dislike. However, if one is that unhappy, maybe, it is a choice to go home!

    Every chance to live abroad suppositely make us better persons because it gives us the possibility to reflect on where we come from and what can be changed. It opens us to possibilities.

    I choose to enjoy what the different countries offer. Of course, there are always places that I prefer to live over others but that is a preferred lifestyle issue.

    I believe when we leave a place, we always remember the good things.

    With all respect, please have the minimal courtesy towards others.

  41. 41 Sandye Sanchez

    @ Count

    You are amusing and disgusting both at the same time and I can tell you I am not misinformed-but you may think of me as naive, if you wish. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to be able to recognize the existence of dictatorships throughout the world, and that definitely includes Lee Kuan Yew’s Singapore. It shares the same traits of many tyrannical regimes whereby absolute power is vested in one tyrant, or a few. And you are right that Singapore’s dictatorship may surprise me–it does and I continue to find it’s unspeakable acts appalling.

    Yes I speak about floggings with revulsion and disgust, and I will continue to do so. I am glad that I am not alone as over 90% of the worlds civilized countries have outlawed this barbarity. I am glad also that global Human Rights groups such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have called out Singapore’s regime for this abuse, and they need to do more of it. Of course Sadists will always question why cruel degrading physical assault is inhumane, hence you have the third world mentality of Singapore’s government.

    Earlier I posted:
    “The very idea of learned and educated judges court ordering and sentencing any man to be stripped naked and tied and bound, as one would do to mistreat an animal, and have a sadist or homosexual beat him repeatedly with a stick until he is scarred and mutilated, is an act of Torture not acceptable in modern first world countries and criminal in and of itself.” And I will add that you cannot ever justify or defend these crimes against humanity; that is wherein the problem lies-with the concept of Torture. The acceptance of this concept is indeed hard to grasp for those that advocate this gender violence. What is happening is clear, simple and repugnant Torture–and that is Not a flowery word.

    No concessions or trade offs can ever be allowed regarding basic personal human rights for by doing so you have an evil system such as Singapore’s, ruled by state terrorism and propaganda. The Singapore constitution guarantees freedoms to citizens, but has literally been destroyed by LKY and his mobsters as they have made a mockery of the rule of law. Without checks and balances you have a system where there are no limits to a tyrants authority, and whereby every aspect of peoples lives and behaviors are forcibly controlled. Basic protection of human rights and freedoms do not magically guarantee anyone anything, but without it (no matter how wealthy one may become) they are nothing but slaves. There are those that say you cannot “eat” human rights and freedom–but you damn well can ‘taste” it!

  42. Dear Count,

    After reading your reply on no. 32, I feel there is a need for me to explain the facts to you , that you want. Your first few paragraphs have already cause some misconception on yourself as well as others, but not for me. Your 1st few paragraphs wrote:

    “It is narrow-minded simply because you are continuously referring to them as foreign talents only out to steal your life bowl when they have just as much right to compete with you for a job. It is narrow-minded because you refuse to accept that there are other reasons for the government to attract foreigners. Read this again. “It is easier to create jobs, than it is to create babies.”.

    Also, you misunderstand a key principle about the attracting of foreign talents. The government attracts them NOT because there is a shortage of middle management jobs, but rather, because it is the section of the population where the largest number of people can be integrated into. Singapore’s labour market is not contracting. It is not stagnant. It is expanding, and expanding at a rate where local births are unable to reasonably keep up. Should Singapore’s growth be stalled simply because of nationalistic rhetoric?

    What makes me so sure about the average TR reader’s response? Are you blind? Have you seen the nationalistic bias those people have shown? Even an indian sounding name can be constituted as being non-singaporean and just another foreign robber. Even Ivy Singh Lim can be mocked for having a foreign sounding name. Is that not enough proof?”

    My reply:
    I wouldn’t condemn any single foreigner to come in here to interact and live. I don’t see any problems with that since i am self-employed, but I have other problems faced with the government I will share with you later on.

    The problem is here; with the majority middle-income families, many foreigners are coming in to work in sectors where alot of Singaporeans aren’t willing to join. why? Alot of foreigners came in here to work as retail stores, long hours jobs, cleaners, assistants, all “low paid” jobs. To us as native Singaporeans, they find those jobs “low paid” and no prospects simply because the cost of living here is increasingly high, and no prospect because they will be living in Singapore for the rest of their live, they wanted to advance and progress (who wouldn’t want?). To the foreigners, they find those jobs “low paid” too, but remember one thing, their mindsets are different, simply because our currency is higher than their country’s (just put yourself in their shoes and think like them, and you will know what I am talking about), and also many many of them, came here on work permits only and when they earned enough they will leave for good. Those who came here as new citizens majority are either well-offs or have no money-issues problems.

    On your 2nd paragraph, you might be right here, which you said there are no shortage of middle-management jobs, because most of them are from sales and serivces sectors, which brings to an essential problem locals faced that is link to the high cost of living here. I wouldn’t elaborate on this 1st, as i will be focusing on explaining the more related issues to your paragraph you stated. The problem is here; The so-called talented government they claimed to be, has seriously missed out something, they rely too much on foreign investments! Which causes what? The government has caused alot of foreign MNCs investing here, resulting in the under-performance of local economy, and also resulting in, local talents not being used. Entrepreneurial Capitalism is not fully supported here. With many state-owned companies and MNCs, which are also harder to get in, they required certifications and qualifications for individuals to be considered (not all are able to get in eventually), they also prevented many locals which may have the talents to be employed. It has been tested and proven that these paper qualifications are only an entrance ticket to these companies, it doesn’t reflected their abilities to work efficiently. This is not the only main problem tho’. The most significant problem i would like to emphasis again is the current government is depending too much on foreign investments, resulting in attracting pools of foreign talents here. If you want reports, I will give you reports, just for your reference only.
    Thus, the government should be headed on another more successful direction long time ago, but they did not, instead of realising the issues ahead, when they just surfaced, they continued doing what they thought were right. I have much more to explain to you on the current government issues in fact.
    I would like to re-phrase your 2nd-last sentence in your 2nd paragh, you said, “It is expanding, and expanding at a rate where local births are unable to reasonably keep up.” Rephrased, “It is getting higher, and higher in cost of living where locals are unable to reasonably keep up.” Fair?

    For your 3rd paragraph, I would even encourage you to go to “The Online Citizen” or “Temasek Review” you mentioned, for a better understandings on what problems the locals are facing. But I totally agreed with you that we, as humans should have moral values and respect for people, if that is what you intended to put across in your message.

    I guess I don’t have to explain everything to you, if i were to, I could wrote you a story book. I am just wondering are you a native Singaporean? Or you just simply out of presumptions, you stated your own assumptions. I would suggest you not doing that, cos this will pollute the readers’ mind.

  43. 43 Singaporean

    Stay in Singapore for 6 months and you will understand why many can accept the lack of ‘freedom’ in return for peace and stability. By peace, I mean little or no worry getting mugged by some gun pointing thugs.

  44. Thank you for the good writeup. It in fact was a amusement account
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